LZ20 engine build

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wayno
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LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:42 pm

So today I started putting together an LZ block, I have a long rod Z20 block(flat top pistons), I decided to put the W53 closed chamber head with the RV cam in it on this block, a high compression revver, at least that is what I see in my head.
It took forever to find a timing chain that fit this engine, and while putting it together I figured out that if you turn the engine backwards without the timing chain guides the chain skips links on the lower gear, also before I tightened the head down when I turned the crank the head would jump into the air, at first I thought a valve was hitting a piston, but it turned out the piston was down and compression was causing it to jump up, at least I think that is what was going on as the timing chain was set up correctly, so I just don't see how a valve could have been hitting a piston.
I still have to put a new head gasket on it, so I will see if any of the pistons are marked when I remove the head for the last time.
I plan on setting up my work truck frame I am using with this engine(motor mounts), get it all ready while I can get to things being it will not have the cab on the frame, I will have it running in this frame then remove it when I transfer everything on the work truck frame to this frame late this year or early next year when I don't have any work.
I have a bunch of little things done now, but I need a L20b timing chain cover and oil pump/distributor drive gear, I still need to drill the oil dipstick hole on the passenger side also, I had to drill one coolant hole in the block.
There is a 1980 Datson 720 in the local wrecking yard and I was all happy, but when I seen a photo of it I was sad, it appears to have the 81 hood so I am thinking it has the napZ engine in it, I need an L20b front timing chain cover, not a napZ cover, I also want a Datsun 720 L20b wiring harness not a napZ harness.
I only took one photo of the engine so far, since I am using an L16 thermostat lower housing, I drilled a hole in the thermostat after I boiled it to make sure it worked properly.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/17mjlli2ob/]Image[/ur

That freaking hour or longer update fucked up my photo processing setup I had as bad as it was, now it really sucks, Windows10 SUCKS, but I have to use this screwed up Windows10 operating system to post photos, it's getting to the point where I am losing interest in this fucked up internet system we have as all the powers that be want is to be able to spy on everyone, I am considering restoring it back to before the update now to get back what I had.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:04 am

Do you have a vehicle in mind for it when its done?
When the only tool you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a hippy.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:21 pm

DRIVEN wrote:Do you have a vehicle in mind for it when its done?


NO :lol:
But that has never stopped me before, I had most of the parts needed to put it together except for the front cover and drive gear which I now have along with a couple extra parts like a thermostat housing with a bypass and the bypass piping, I have the matchbox and coil(bought years ago), I have the oil pan/pickup tube also(from parted out 521), I have all this stuff around here and I am starting to use it, once I use up all this stuff I will start selling the extra stuff, I believe I even have enough to put together another set of SUs, and I have lots of gaskets, I believe I have 3/4 more headgaskets as every time I have built an LZ23 I end up with an extra Felpro L20b head gasket.
When I transfer everything over from the 521 frame this engine will be put to the side, I was thinking about leaving this engine in the truck to see how it preforms, but I need the LZ23 in this truck, maybe I will put it in the 520 ute and see how it does, if I don't like it I will sell it while people can see it run/drive it, a longrod engine is rare, I really want to see if I can get it going and how it acts being it is a high compression engine, I had a 350 high compression engine in a Nova when I was a kid, it was fun to drive.
“The difference between genius and stupidly is that genius has its limits” Albert Einstein
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wayno
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:44 pm

So I got a lot done on this engine the last half of today, I basically put it together.

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I put the oil pick up tube on, then the oil pan, I flipped it back over and installed a what appears to be good fuel pump, I then installed a matchbox distributor, I guess I am short a pedestal(I sold one a while back, insert face palm here), I then installed a new header I have(not sure if I am going to use it yet), I then put together a SU package I have, the SUs supposedly were good when I bought them, I still need to make a throttle cable holder but that will be easy, as I have done that a few times, but the rest of the throttle assembly is done and functions properly now.
Oh and I also piped the fuel lines from the fuel pump to the carbs, it's amazing how much stuff I have around here.
I still need a PVC valve and I need to fab up a crank case vent, i'll likely do that tomorrow along with the engine mount hardware, I also need to figure out what I have for transmissions around here, all I really need is a L series front case and I have that.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:52 pm

Well that happened quick.
When the only tool you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a hippy.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:36 pm

I have most everything I need, I just have to find it, I forgot I had the SUs, I also have a cover/air filter and will likely install that just to keep stuff out of the carbs.
I almost have everything needed to put another set of SUs together, just don't have the heat shield.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:38 pm

So basically the engine needs oil and gas and I suspect it will run, but I have to make a transmission for it now.
I did everything that needed done today, I finished piping the SUs, I did the air filter, bowl vents, coolant piping, vacuum advance line, crank case venting/PCV valve, I put the fan pulley and fan on, I put an alternator on and have 2 belts I can use.
I routed the heater outlets together, put the spark plug wires on it, it is ready to start, now I need to get it into the frame after I install a transmission, I have everything needed for flywheel, clutch, ect; don't have to buy a thing, here are the photos, I forgot to make the throttle cable bracket. :lol:
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:35 pm

OK, so I made the throttle bracket, I couldn't believe I forgot it.
I may have to do a little adjusting, as I cannot tell how much cable goes thru the firewall to the pedal.

Image

It's kinda funny, once I get done it takes me a day to clean everything up I make such a mess.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:29 pm

:thumbs:
When the only tool you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a hippy.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:39 pm

If you have been following my posts at the other site you will see that it appears how I set up an engine has been wrong(for over 20 years), even though the engines I have run fine(even on regular pump gas), the cam has not been timed correctly, this kinda stunned me, I am trying to get the work truck engine sorted out as today I set the ignition timing to 2 degrees before TDC as it was knocking/pinging at 3/4 degrees before TDC.
I have always set my engines up this way, crank at TDC, cam lobes at 10am/2pm, and the distributor rotor at around 4pm, they start fine and run fine this way, but the cam timed this way is like having a super stretched timing chain.
When I set it up properly and drove it, it knocked really bad at 6 degrees before TDC, so I re-timed it at 3/4 degrees before TDC and it still knocked/pinged on the hills, today after work I set it at 2 degrees before TDC and am hoping the knocking/pinging stops, otherwise I will likely have to put it back to the way it was as I burn regular pump gas for reasons I will not explain and it ran fine on regular that way.
Now I have a lot of SU carb noise, never heard it this loud before(cam has never been timed properly on any of my engines), but it is what it is, I am considering making another air filter system, one that involves a square tube leading to a canister filter like my diesels have, maybe I can cover it with sound deadening materials if it is still noisy, but they would have to be heat and water resistant materials.
This cam timing thing made me stand back and think of all the times I have told people how to set up their engine, I told them how to do it wrong even though they run fine, but I did notice another thing, normally I have the gas pedal pushed down fairly far as I am hauling heavy loads all the time, and I am hauling a trailer also, it is not uncommon for me to have a rolling weight of 7000lbs with the trailer, and I am likely around or slightly over 5000lbs empty(no debris on/in the flatbed), and this is why I have trailer brakes, well I am barely touching the pedal now except on the hills and then I am less than half way down on the pedal, normally I would be floored on these hills and I justified this in my head to the truck/trailer weighing so much.
The cam is timed on this LZ20 engine properly now and it looks strange to me, the cam lobes are closer to 11am/3pm which don't look right, if I can get the LZ23 in the work truck sorted out(not knocking/pinging) I will have to live with it being set up properly. :lol:
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:43 am

Interesting
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby Laecaon » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:03 pm

Tilt the motor over 15 degrees like it sits in the truck. Now is it at 10 and 2? I always set my motor with gold link chains, or counting links on the chain.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:38 pm

Same here. But thats on other makes.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:12 pm

Well it does not knock/ping anymore with the ignition timing at 2 degrees before TDC, I suppose if I bought premium gas I could adjust the timing differently, but I burn regular so 2 degrees it is.
It also appears that I am getting way better gas mileage, with the truck empty/no trailer I have got 23mpg before, but as a work truck I don't really do all that good, well 5 gallons just got me farther than I can ever recall the last couple days, I am barely using the pedal, it's different, but I don't believe I have any more power, I just use less pedal for the same power.
This LZ20 engine is different than my normal used engines I build, normally I never remove the front timing chain cover so I cannot count links, I got so used to doing it the way I have been doing it that I have not counted links in a long time, but this LZ20 build I did remove the Z series timing chain cover, but even though the cover was off I set it up the way I normally set them up, and then Dmike posted that photo and I got curious, so I looked at my LZ20 and it wasn't even close, so then I went inside and ripped the valve cover off that fresh LZ23 and it wasn't even close, so then I ripped the valve cover off the LZ23 in the work truck and, it wasn't even close to that photo Dmike posted either, now all of them except the LZ23 in the dining room are fixed, well maybe not, I just remembered the 520 L seies engine that I just put the 219 head on, that one is likely wrong also(have not looked at that one yet), I suppose I will look at that one tomorrow, I burn non-ethanol premium gas in that one, so the ignition timing will likely be closer to normal on that one when I fix/re-time the cam on it as it likely isn't even close either.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:16 pm

Wow. You've been busy.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:45 pm

I made the transmission today that will go with this engine/truck for mock up purposes, it will be the transmission that mates to my LZ23, I actually put 2 of them together, one was made already but I didn't know a thing about it, so I took it apart to make sure it was good, I will be using the one that was in the 1986 truck, I put an L front case on it.
I am running out of early front bearing covers, I really don't want to pull transmissions just to rob the front covers but I don't see any other way, I could use around 5 of them with the lower bearing shim, otherwise I might have to take a couple cases to the machine shop and have the guy turn out the holes to the larger bearing as I have a few extras of them.

There is something really sad going on at Baxters, they cannot find a cluster gear/counter shaft bearing even though I tell them the transmission type(FS5W71B), year, and the size I need(56mm), it has gotten to the point where there is no point going there unless I have the part number, even on fuel filters and oil filters, they cannot find anything there unless it is aftermarket.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby DRIVEN » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:58 pm

They've really gone down hill in the last 10 years. I used to buy exclusively from them. Even had an account there because I bought so much. Can't remember the last time I shopped there been over a year.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:07 pm

Buying cluster gear/counter shaft bearings for the FS5W71B has become a challenge, I supposedly have 4 of the 56mm bearings coming from Georgia, the 63mm version(#22bc06s5x) for the 85+ Nissan 720 is not as easy so far, I have only one lead right now and I suspect they might have a minimum order, I bought 4 of the 56mm bearings because of just that($100.00 minimum).
I spent a lot of time standing around waiting while these guys at the auto parts stores clicked away on the computer, I gave up at Baxters, I grabbed my parts off the counter and said I will go down the road to the other auto parts store, those guys cannot find anything at Baxters unless you have a good part number, or you need a floor mat, they can find the aftermarket floor mats, they cannot even find the oil filters I need for my diesel trucks, now I just write the number down and find it myself on their shelves.
The Datsun 521 kingcab diesel is broke, it will not shut down by the key now, I have to let the clutch out in gear, I plugged in another IP controller and it worked, so now I will have to bend the inner fender well up in front of the upper control arm to replace it, anyone want to bet that it will work fine after I pull it out of the truck? (Insert big sigh here) :lol:
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby Laecaon » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:04 am

I still buy a bit from Baxters. They are the closest to my house. And the main guy there knows his stuff. Just got a new battery for the BMW, with the NorthWestZ discount, it was $25 cheaper than anywhere else, and its a very good brand.

If you didnt know, North West Z has a club discount through Baxter's, Its all one word for them to search it. Its a strong discount too, brought the moog ball joints on the 510 down $30 a piece to a few dollars of Amazon.

That said, I never go to a store with a part number only. Always have the info for which vehicle it goes to.

22bc06s5x is a 62mm bearing, not 63mm...

FYI, Baxters carries the 62mm bearing. 305AG, Timken $36. Pulls up on their website effortlessly under a 85 720.

But why not do Rock Auto? Same thing, Nissan > 1985 > 720 Pickup >Transmission Manual > Counter Shaft Bearing

National 305, 62mm (2.4409in) for $16. SKF 6305J, 62mm is $28.89. Timken 305AG, 62mm is $16.44.

And here is a 5% off code for RockAuto good until the 26th: 7013302853797437


Personally, I dont like Timken anymore.
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Re: LZ20 engine build

Postby wayno » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:05 pm

I don't ask for discounts, they used to give them to me when there were guys in there that could find parts, these guys at Baxters cannot find anything except maybe the door and their car when they get off work.
The bearing place I ended up at told me the 305 they have would not work for me as it has an ID of 25mm, he also said that the automotive application might be 22mm like my samples are, that guy is the one that gave me the 22bc06s5x number, and O'reilly's is the one that found my only lead for the 63mm bearing that mine also measure out at 62mm OD, 22mm ID, 17mm wide.
I will try Rock Auto, I cannot recall ever being there before, but I figured out that I really don't need that 63mm bearing now and here is why, I took two boxes with 63mm bearings in them as samples, they found the 56mm bearings because of the numbers on the boxes, this is where I am bad, I removed good 63mm bears off transmissions and replaced them with the 56mm bearings so I could put the early case on the late transmission, when I removed the 63mm bearing I put it in the 56mm box to save, well it has been so long since I done this, I forgot the bearings in the boxes were the larger bearings in the smaller bearing box, but the numbers on the boxes got me the 56mm bearings I really need, and I have 2 good used large bearings in the boxes.
Right now I have a transmission with a good used 56mm bearing in it, when I get around to putting the engine/transmission together, if the new bearings have arrived I will replace the used bearing with a new bearing, if the new bearings are not here yet I will install it with the used 56mm bearing, I am only test running this engine in that chassis anyway, I will remove it to install the LZ23 when I transfer the 521 cab/engine onto this 720 chassis, but first I will likely put all new gaskets on the LZ23 before installing it.
“The difference between genius and stupidly is that genius has its limits” Albert Einstein

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